Bob Odenkirk initially needed convincing that Saul Goodman, the brash and scheming comic relief from Breaking Bad, merited a spin-off series.
He felt there wasn't enough substance, viewing Saul as merely a con man. Odenkirk wondered, "Who cares?" However, the concept for Better Call Saul, a prequel delving into Saul's life away from the TV commercials and billboards, focusing on Jimmy McGill, completely changed his perspective.
Odenkirk's instincts, combined with the vision of series creators Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould, proved correct. Better Call Saul has become one of television's most critically acclaimed series.
With season 5 of Better Call Saul having aired on AMC, and work underway on the sixth and final season, Odenkirk discussed the evolution of Saul Goodman, from his first appearance on Breaking Bad to where we find Jimmy McGill as the series approaches its conclusion.
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The Genesis of Saul Goodman in Breaking Bad
Odenkirk's introduction to Breaking Bad came unexpectedly.
His agent contacted him about a role, emphasizing the show's quality and urging him to accept. At that time, Breaking Bad was still relatively unknown, overshadowed by Mad Men and lacking streaming popularity. Odenkirk even consulted a friend who hailed it as "best show on TV."
“[In the new season, Jimmy has] decided to very consciously compartmentalize his worst instincts and call them Saul Goodman and be that. When he’s that he’s that, and when he’s home, he’s Jimmy McGill. He’s a person that Kim Wexler can trust and love. And so he’s now made this choice: I’m not going to just kind of go through life, and struggle with all these urges; I’m going to put all my bad urges right here. I’m going to dress for it, and I’m going to be that guy, and don’t expect anything good from him.
The character was described to Odenkirk as a lawyer who's also a con man, a concept that appealed to him due to his experience playing Stevie Grant on Larry Sanders. Vince Gilligan sent him the script, which featured lengthy monologues. Odenkirk even had an idea for the character's hair.
Initially, Odenkirk was contracted for four episodes, but a scheduling conflict led to the creation of Mike Ehrmantraut, played by Jonathan Banks, to handle the plot work in the fourth episode.
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Doubts and the Birth of a Spin-Off
Gilligan inquired about the potential for a show centered on Saul, but Odenkirk was skeptical. He viewed Saul as simply a con man and didn't see enough depth for a series.
Odenkirk initially approached the idea of a sequel as a joke. He recalled the first scene he did on Breaking Bad with Bryan Cranston, where he delivered a monologue telling Walter White who he is and suggesting he doesn't need Saul.
However, as Saul's character recurred and people joked about a potential sequel, Gilligan revisited the idea. While Odenkirk remained unsure, he trusted Gilligan's vision.
Saul's Appeal in Breaking Bad
In Breaking Bad, Saul was entertaining because the stakes were low for him. Unlike other characters facing death or family crises, Saul seemed immune, allowing him to make wisecracks and maintain a lighter energy.
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However, Odenkirk questioned whether Saul would be as enjoyable to watch on his own, outside the context of Breaking Bad's dark world.
Better Call Saul: Unveiling Jimmy McGill
THE MOMENT WHEN JIMMY BECOMES SAUL || better call saul
One of the first things Odenkirk discussed with Vince and Peter [Gould] about creating a series is that he said, ‘You’ve got to make him likable.’ I don’t think he’s a likable guy. He’s likable in relation to the world around him in Breaking Bad. [So] they went ahead and did that. They invented who he really was, who James McGill was. And James McGill is likable.
It’s a vastly different performance in Better Call Saul than in Breaking Bad. It’s 100 million times different. The good thing we had going for us was that in Breaking Bad he told Walter White and he told the audience, ‘This isn’t who I really am,’ but then he never showed who he really was. You never saw him go home. You don’t know what his personal life was. But there were a few times in the course of the Breaking Bad story where he showed a deeper dimension.
In Better Call Saul, Odenkirk delivers a vastly different performance, revealing the character's hidden depths. While Saul told Walter White and the audience that he wasn't being his true self, he never revealed who he really was. The series explores Jimmy McGill's personal life and deeper dimensions, which were only hinted at in Breaking Bad.
There were moments in Breaking Bad where Jimmy McGill peeked through Saul's persona, such as when he encouraged Jesse to talk to Brock and Andrea, or when he advised Walter White to quit while he was ahead.
The Complex Relationships of Jimmy McGill
Chuck [and Saul’s] is probably the most interesting and idiosyncratic [relationship in Better Call Saul], because you just don’t see that often played out in a long form - a sibling relationship that is that deep, and that scarred, and intense. Those guys are way too close, and they should leave each other alone. But they both need something from the other one, and they’re not going to get it. Jimmy wants Chuck to look at him and say, ‘You’re great, and you’re doing the right things, and you’re really good at being a lawyer, and you’re a really good person.’ And he needs to hear Chuck say ‘I love you.’ And he needs to get some respect from his brother, but he never does, and he never will.
The relationship between Chuck and Jimmy is one of the most interesting and complex aspects of Better Call Saul. Their sibling dynamic is deep, scarred, and intense, with both brothers needing something from the other that they can never obtain.
Kim and Jimmy, that is an amazing relationship that, more than anything in the show, I think shows some maturation from the character of Jimmy, and shows the character growing up. And I liked that a lot. I’m playing a character who’s much younger than myself, and [that’s] one of the hardest things to play. I can’t do much about my face, and all the makeup people work on it, and do their best, and the audience has been incredibly kind to suspend disbelief and let me play this guy. But one of the hardest things is to play his level of immaturity in his outlook on life, and towards other people.
The relationship between Kim and Jimmy showcases Jimmy's maturation and growth. Odenkirk finds it challenging to play a character much younger than himself, particularly capturing Jimmy's immaturity.
This last season, season 4, there are these moments where Jimmy is honest with Kim, and he just tells her the truth. He doesn’t try to hide it, or con her, or just escape without being mature about it. He tells her the truth and she listens. And those are the great signs of two characters growing, and of a couple that should work. I mean, they should be able to make it work, which is of course going to be tragic if they can’t, which I assume they can’t.
In season 4, Jimmy's honesty with Kim signals growth in both characters and their relationship. However, the tragic nature of their story suggests they may not succeed in making their relationship work.
Of course, I don’t want to give away any spoilers, but I’m seriously talking as a fan that I don’t think that Saul Goodman in Breaking Bad is going home to Kim Wexler. I dread what could happen to her, but if something really tragic happens, then I don’t see how he could go on. I don’t know what happens.
Odenkirk speculates that Saul Goodman in Breaking Bad is not with Kim Wexler, hinting at a potentially tragic fate for her that would deeply affect him.
The Bifurcated Existence of Jimmy/Saul
He’s now made this choice: I’m going to put all my bad urges right here. [In the new season, Jimmy has] decided to very consciously compartmentalize his worst instincts and call them Saul Goodman and be that. When he’s that he’s that, and when he’s home, he’s Jimmy McGill. He’s a person that Kim Wexler can trust and love. And so he’s now made this choice: I’m not going to just kind of go through life, and struggle with all these urges; I’m going to put all my bad urges right here. I’m going to dress for it, and I’m going to be that guy, and don’t expect anything good from him.
Jimmy decides to compartmentalize his worst instincts, calling them Saul Goodman. He aims to be Saul when he needs to be, and Jimmy when he's with Kim, hoping to maintain her trust and love.
Can you separate yourself out and live a bifurcated existence like that? In a way it’s gotten easier now [to play the part] because it’s easier for Jimmy. I mean, I think the character feels lighter and more energetic, because he goes, ‘I figured it out, I figured it out. I know what I have to do, I have to play this part.’ And so I find season 5 to be a more upbeat, energetic, and he’s clearer in what he’s doing, and I think he’s grown emotionally. Now the question is, can a person make that work in the real world? Can a person do that? That’s what they’re asking. Can you separate yourself out like that and live a bifurcated existence like that?
Odenkirk finds it easier to play the part as Jimmy becomes clearer about his dual existence. However, the series explores whether such a bifurcated life is sustainable in the real world.
| Character | Key Traits | Relationships |
|---|---|---|
| Saul Goodman | Brash, scheming, con man, comedic relief | Associates in the criminal world, clients |
| Jimmy McGill | Likable, immature, struggling to find his path, honest (at times) | Chuck McGill (brother), Kim Wexler (romantic partner) |
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